I want to buy an awesome 3D Printer

[Fred 453]

The easiest way to test 3D printing out might be to try a service like Shapeways. Their printers are a huge step in quality above consumer ones, but might be valid for checking your premise.

 

As far a milling goes, you might be able to find someone to test it out. I'd be happy to try for you if it's something small so that it fits my tiny mill and shipping from the UK isn't impractical.

[timotet 44]

Just saw this , seems nice.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/boxzy/boxzy-rapid-change-fablab-mill-laser-engraver-3d-p?ref=category

[Fred 453]

@@timotet Nooooooooo... Anything that tries to be all those things will be bad at them all. So many times that's been promised and never been delivered.

 

For instance mills require rigidity and small backlash under load (leadscrews are ideal). Lasers require speed (hence light weight and belts). They don't need Z axis travel but it's good to have largish X and Y. 3D printers need a larger Z axis but large X and Y aren't really necessary. All these things conflict. You're so much better buying separate machines.

[timotet 44]

Thanks for your opinion @@Fred!

 

Here are a few more points to consider:

 

Every industrial cnc I've seen seems to have ball screws, they are fast, and rigid.

The Toyoda FA400 in the shop I work at rapids at about 2300 inch's per minute(59 MPM).

This machine will easily take a .5" deep pass with a 1" cutter at 100 inchs a minute through

7075 aluminum all day long. I think that qualifies as rigid.

 

Yes I know this example is not a good comparison to a small desktop machine, but just from

the video and what the guy says in the video it would appear the ball screws are of good quality.

You can also see in the video the round bearing rods seem pretty beefy.

 

Yes it seems a laser would not need Z travel but...

If you wanted to put a laser on your mill you could adjust your Z to focus the beam.

As far as speed goes it all depends on the stepper drivers, the software running them,

and if they have tuned the acceleration values to work with the ball screw.

 

Why not throw a hot end in there and use it for printing if you could?

You already have a precision positioning system.

 

I dont see how the build area on this machine conflicts at all, its a desktop machine.

I think with that being your end goal a large build area is a moot point.

 

I also realize its been promised before but this one seems the closest so far.

The only real con I see is using a router as a spindle, it's just so loud.

 

I think the machine seems pretty nice, especially if your only going to machine plastic,

and if in fact you could get 3 for 1 I think its a good bang for your buck.

I can just about guarantee that this machine will take some fine tuning.

I have yet to see one that doesnt. But once you get it dialed in it could be surprising.

Am I going to put my money on it? No but if I was in the market and had a couple

grand to throw at it I might consider it.

 

Just my opinion.

 

[jpnorair 340]

Just saw this , seems nice.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/boxzy/boxzy-rapid-change-fablab-mill-laser-engraver-3d-p?ref=category

 

It's worth a deeper inspection.  The biggest problem I see is that the price appears too low for the company to be able to sustain it.  So many Kickstarter projects fail because the creators have no business experience and they don't know what pricing they need to make the business work.  Because this is the norm instead of the exception, KS incites a race-to-the-bottom as each project is competing on price with the last several projects, and these were also priced too low and failed.  If it is all open sourced this is less of an issue -- but I didn't see that it was open-sourced.  I don't think it is.

 

 

Here are a few more points to consider: ...

 

I would like to have the ability to mill aluminum, copper, and brass.  I have zero interest in steel.  I have never used steel in a project, but if I do I'm going to find someone else who knows what the hell he is doing.

 

The laser cutter is a new wrinkle.  It might be preferable to the mill for cutting shapes out of metal sheet, which can be a big part of antenna prototyping.

 

 

Edit: (non sequitur)

I just watched the BoXZY video.  A product like this should have some sort of heavy accompanying music in the video, like a hard rock, metal, or even a heavy classical piece.  Is it supposed to be cute or awesome?  Instead it's the same valium elevator music in every KS video.  Seriously, if it opened up with some heavy chords I would have signed-up for the $3000 supreme.  

[timotet 44]

Oh Yes!

 

We may have something in common there, machining metal while listening to metal!

 

 

The laser cutter is a new wrinkle.  It might be preferable to the mill for cutting shapes out of metal sheet, which can be a big part of antenna prototyping.

That would be great if the laser could handle it.

[Fred 453]

You need a very expensive Nd-YAG laser to cut metal. Hobby level lasers tend to be CO2 ones and limit you to cutting things like acrylic and wood or engraving glass.

[Fred 453]

@@timotet I did go off on a bit of a rant there, didn't I!

 

Your Toyoda sounds like a good machine, but even that wouldn't be ideal with a laser stuck on it. It may be able to do rapids at 2300ipm but when lasering you may need to engrave at that sort of speed. Any decent rigid mill will have too much inertia to corner at those sort of speeds.

 

It's just not possible to produce a 3-in-1 machine that isn't just 3 bad compromised machines in 1. It's one of those things that people try over and over again, repeating the same mistakes. It's a bit like all those conductive ink PCB printers that are constantly claiming a breakthrough but don't stand up to basic scrutiny - particularly the conductivity of the ink.

[timotet 44]

Yea the Toyoda is an awesome machine and I wish it was mine. It's a pleasure to run it.

It would not be effective as a laser cutter, and your right it wont corner that fast but, its amazing the

speed at which some of , most of the newer large CNC's move and corner at.

[jpnorair 340]

You need a very expensive Nd-YAG laser to cut metal. Hobby level lasers tend to be CO2 ones and limit you to cutting things like acrylic and wood or engraving glass.

By "sheet" I mean adhesive-backed copper foil.

[Fred 453]

I think even very thin copper can't be cut with a CO2 laser. Copper is very reflective to IR. So much so that it's even used for front surface mirrors.

[tingo 22]

This is a helpful comment, but it misses some things: you do not define what is consumer price range and you do not give an example of an "awesome" printer by your definition.  I am very curious about your opinions on those two things.

 

I don't define a consumer price range because it is difficult. It depends on too many factors. But see my next point, maybe that will help.

I don't give an example of an awesome printer simply because I have not seen one yet.

I have seen videos of professional 3D printers, some of them might be awesome, but they cost a lot (typically USD 15000.- and up), and it is hard to judge the awesomeness of a 3D printer from a few minutes of demo video.

[greeeg 460]

I'd like to chime in. First some background. I am a student, I do not have much money, I will pick a cheaper option that require significant setup over something that works out of the box.

 

I own both a "cheap" (<$1000) CNC and 3d printer.

Specifically a flashforge creator (based on the makerbot replicator 2), and a "3020" CNC from china. (30 x 20cm work space)

 

I have owned my 3d printer for over a year sometimes it delievers great prints, sometimes they're quite frankly terrible. There are alot of various setting and adjustments, being a cheap printer it didn't come with comprehensive instructions. Another note is that prints take A LONG TIME. So if you want to see the result from adjusting a small setting it can be very time consuming. However complex geometries are quite easy to produce on a well tuned printer.

 

 

I bought the CNC after reading through this guide. http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/gcnc/ I reccommend if you have the time to do the same. I knew nothing about CNC machining before buying my CNC. I found a local supplier of silicone and polyurethane resins. They are more expensive per kg than ABS/PLA filiments, but likely similar cost to UV resins. I also invested in a huge slab of tooling board. 1500 x 500 x 50mm, which is very quick to machine, and has created perfect molds, with almost no wear on my tools.

The downside to the CNC is that a complex shape, i.e a simple poject box with a hole on each side requires a fair amount of 3d visulisation to seperate into parts that can be machined on a 3 axis machine. You could end up with a 4 or 5 part mold, whereas the 3d printer would just do it straight from your 3d CAD files.

 

An advantage of the cnc + molds is that polyurethanes come with a huge assortment of diffrent properties. I have cast flexible and rigid objects, even from the same mold sometimes. The ability to pigment each cast individually is a blessing and a curse, on one hand it enables colour changes by simply adding a few cents woth of pigment or dye. On the other hand getting the same shade of colour for concecutive casts can be difficult.

 

Ultimately, if this is for buisness purposes, the CNC road will create nicer looking parts. However a 3d printer esspecially something like the form 1+ might be easier for you to get started with.

[Fred 453]

@@greeeg How do you find the 3020? I was thinking of a 3040 but since sorting out a new workshop I'm now tempted by a 6040 for the sturdier 800w water cooled spindle. I'm aware of the poor stepper wiring and drivers, but what's your overall view of the machine?

 

I'll have to hold off for now because all the UK eBay sellers of the 6040 suddenly upped their prices by

[greeeg 460]

@@greeeg How do you find the 3020? I was thinking of a 3040 but since sorting out a new workshop I'm now tempted by a 6040 for the sturdier 800w water cooled spindle. I'm aware of the poor stepper wiring and drivers, but what's your overall view of the machine?

 

I'll have to hold off for now because all the UK eBay sellers of the 6040 suddenly upped their prices by