spirilis 1,265 Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 So as I understand it, the only Sub-1GHz boosterpack available right now is Anaren's AIR CC110L which seems to get a bit of attention (one of the TI'ers used it for a DIY project presented at the Maker Faire back in May, right?). But there are more sophisticated options out there, including TI's new CC1200 and @@jpnorair has mentioned some other chipsets. So a refresh on the technology using some of the newer chipsets is in order. I'm copying from another thread where this inspiration came: spirilis, on 12 Sept 2013 - 7:47 PM, said: I'd totally love to do something like this at some point, although not sure I'll get to it this year. QFN soldering is still new territory for me (though with OSHstencils and my reflow skillet, probably doable) and I am a green noob at RF PCB design .... although I do have that SA430! Has to count for something right? (@@jpnorair 's reply) I can supply a basic design pretty quickly, the sort of thing that goes to SMA connector. Doing an integrated antenna isn't *really* a big deal in this form factor, but I'm pretty busy with my real work now. I certainly don't have time at the moment to deal with logistics of manufacturing and distribution. If we want to stick with TI, then the CC1200 might be an interesting choice. If we don't care, then ST SPIRIT1 and Semtech SX1276 are both interesting options. Another possibility is to use a CC430, and have it work optionally as a network processor or optionally as direct SPI pass-through to the CC1101 core. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spirilis 1,265 Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 @@jpnorair I think a refresh is in order, so I say we go with newer stuff. SPIRIT1 or CC1200 or SX1276... I'm guessing though that Anaren will eventually produce a CC1200 AIR module, and those make for easy integration into final products/project boards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bluehash 1,581 Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I'll back this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jpnorair 340 Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 If the community has some idea what chip they would prefer, just let me know. A vote? or an edict is fine too: if 43oh is getting direct support from TI, then it should probably be a TI chip. I've not used or supported the CC1200, but as long as TI has a reference design, I won't need to design any new analog circuits. That is a plus, because I'd prefer to do the design at home on a lazy sunday. spirilis 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Automate 69 Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 What frequencies are you thinking of supporting 433/868/915 MHz? The current panStamp only supports 868/915. When I asked about 433 for the CC430 panStamp I got the following reply The final PCB has not been designed yet but now the idea is to replace the RF balum and filter made with discretes by a Johanson chip. Doing this we could save space and also work on different frequencies by assembling the correct Johanson part whilst keeping the same PCB layout. One option would be to create a simple BoosterPack that just connects a panStamp to the Launchpad. This way you don't have to worry about the RF design. The developer of panStamp seems to be very open to feature input from potential users. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spirilis 1,265 Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 What frequencies are you thinking of supporting 433/868/915 MHz? The current panStamp only supports 868/915. When I asked about 433 for the CC430 panStamp I got the following reply One option would be to create a simple Booster Pack that just connects a panStamp to the Launchpad. This way you don't have to worry about the RF design. The developer of panStamp seems to be very open to feature input from potential users. My intention here is to add functionality to the TI LaunchPad ecosystem above and beyond what's already available (Existing Anaren AIR CC110L BoosterPack adds CC110x capabilities, albeit not as sophisticated as CC430 & CC1101 but similar performance I believe?); meaning the newer, higher range chipsets like CC1200 and SPIRIT1 et al. The PanStamp idea is a good idea but I think what makes more sense is a PanStamp-BoosterPack adapter, since it has its own MCU it'll then let you add BoosterPacks to the PanStamp. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Automate 69 Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 My intention here is to add functionality to the TI LaunchPad ecosystem above and beyond what's already available (Existing Anaren AIR CC110L BoosterPack adds CC110x capabilities, That's why I asked about frequencies. Anaren BoosterPacks don't support 433Mhz. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spirilis 1,265 Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 That's why I asked about frequencies. Anaren BoosterPacks don't support 433Mhz. Ah right, good point. Forgot Anaren only lists 433MHz in EU (not sure why?). I think prioritizing 433MHz is important; @@jpnorair had some chart on his twitter showing the noise in 433 vs. 915 that was telling. But being able to change the balun/etc and build alternate frequencies will be important too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Automate 69 Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 As I understand it the A1101 is offered in 433Mhz versions but not the BoosterPack due to FCC regulations. I agree that moving up to the CC12XX would be best but don't know if/when Anaren will release one. Lowest price I see for A1101R04C is $12.50 with LGA footprint. panStamp is $18.55 with DIP footprint. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spirilis 1,265 Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 As I understand it the A1101 is offered in 433Mhz versions but not the BoosterPack due to FCC regulations. I agree that moving up to the CC12XX would be best but don't know if/when Anaren will release one. Lowest price I see for A1101R04C is $12.50 with LGA footprint. panStamp is $18.55 with DIP footprint. Ah, strange. How do other 433MHz solutions get around that? Or are you supposed to obtain a special license to use that band? I guess the main reason to stick with Anaren or other pre-built solution is: https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/398 Come to think of it, a lot of pre-built boosterpacks probably fall under the category of requiring certification... heh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Automate 69 Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Come to think of it, a lot of pre-built boosterpacks probably fall under the category of requiring certification... heh And all the cheap ebay wireless stuff out of China which should be but is almost never certified. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spirilis 1,265 Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 And all the cheap ebay wireless stuff out of China which should be but is almost never certified. Yeah... Sounds like you need an amateur radio license to legally play in 433MHz (and be cognizant that you are not pissing off other users)- http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=printview&t=29777 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Automate 69 Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I'm thinking we fall under this "The FCC allows a hobbyist to build up to five devices of a single design for personal use with no testing whatsoever." from the Sparkfun link you provided. Assuming the end user/hobbyist does some of the final assembly. It seems best to stay in the ISM bands but not required. 433Mhz is ISM but not in the US http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spirilis 1,265 Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 I'm thinking we fall under this "The FCC allows a hobbyist to build up to five devices of a single design for personal use with no testing whatsoever." from the Sparkfun link you provided. Assuming the end user/hobbyist does some of the final assembly. Guess this is one of those grey areas we have to decide how far we want to walk into. I was thinking of rolling a board with the chipset based on an antenna footprint design from @@jpnorair if necessary, but I don't think it's worth selling in pieces since those QFN chips are a tad tricky to solder by hand. The idea I had in mind was doing hand assembly with stencils and reflow skillet (or maybe commissioning Elecrow to assemble them) and selling those boards without headers or the SMA antenna, but I'm not sure what "some of the final assembly" really entails. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
abecedarian 330 Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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