Logic Analyzers

[Rei Vilo 695]

I had three Saleae logic analysers:

• the initial 8-channel I bought,
• the initial 16-channel a customer bought for a project I was working on as a contractor, 
• and the new 8-channel logic and analog analyser.

I've reviewed them at Saleae Logic Analyser on my website. Every-time I've used it to debug a circuit, the logic analyser helped me to identify and fix the issue. The team behind the Logic application is very responsive. I do recommend connecting it to a laptop running on battery power to avoid ground issues.

 

Everything has a price, and the cheap clones are harmful twice. First, they don't provide quality and thus may raise security issues

[mgh 11]

I'm late to this party, but here's two other suggestions:

 

Ika-logic has a 4-channel semi-kit for 39 euros:

  https://www.ikalogic.com/scanalogic-2-edu-kit-2/

 

Mattair-Tech has a multi-tool for 23USD:

  https://www.mattairtech.com/index.php/development-boards/zeptoprog-ii.html

 

 No affiliation with either company, but I do have a very nice ATxmega128a3u board from MattairTech, and I wish I had the ScanaLogic device.

[spirilis 1,265]

I am happy I used a couple opportunities (when I had more surplus cash than originally budgeted) to buy these kinds of tools... a Saleae Logic16 about 3yr ago, and a DS1054z this past July. Cause I hear @@yyrkoon 's dilemma, it's a pain to have the need for these tools while one is constrained on cash.

 

Moral of the story: Sometimes it *does pay* to make seemingly frivolous investments in quality tools when you don't appear to need them. It's a gamble every time but certain tools are worth having. Like my 22gal air compressor in the garage, it's not strictly necessary for DIY car work but oh does it make certain situations palatable to deal with.

[yyrkoon 250]

If I went by what I wanted, and not what I felt I needed. I'd actually probably build my own beaglelogic cape. Since you can't seem to buy them anywhere. They've apparently been tested, and made working with sigrok.

 

@@spirilis Don't get me started on shop related stuff . . . heh. We've pretty much got everything. For everything. Our air tank for instance is 100gal . . . and you guys probably don't want me to go on. Car lift, wood shop, Machine shop, soon to be PCB fab . . .

[yyrkoon 250]

I had three Saleae logic analysers:

• the initial 8-channel I bought,
• the initial 16-channel a customer bought for a project I was working on as a contractor, 
• and the new 8-channel logic and analog analyser.

I've reviewed them at Saleae Logic Analyser on my website. Every-time I've used it to debug a circuit, the logic analyser helped me to identify and fix the issue. The team behind the Logic application is very responsive. I do recommend connecting it to a laptop running on battery power to avoid ground issues.

 

Everything has a price, and the cheap clones are harmful twice. First, they don't provide quality and thus may raise security issues

[Rei Vilo 695]

You know what though ? My buddy bought himself and me a Segger J-link clone. 3 years ago or so. I have not touched it once. Except to look at it. He's used his once or twice to debug a broken network router, or two. Imagine the waste, if these were the real deal.

 

I agree with you. If you don't need a tool, don't own it! On my case, I'm using those tools on a regular basis and I'm ready to pay for quality equipment.

[yyrkoon 250]

 

I'm late to this party, but here's two other suggestions:

 

Ika-logic has a 4-channel semi-kit for 39 euros:

  https://www.ikalogic.com/scanalogic-2-edu-kit-2/

 

Mattair-Tech has a multi-tool for 23USD:

  https://www.mattairtech.com/index.php/development-boards/zeptoprog-ii.html

 

 No affiliation with either company, but I do have a very nice ATxmega128a3u board from MattairTech, and I wish I had the ScanaLogic device.

 

Problem with the first one, I did not really want to go with a kit. Otherwise I'd have gone with the open source hardware one thats been around for years, capable of 100Mhz, and 32 channels. I have a problem with clutter here, and really need a case for my beaglebone's too . . .both my running beaglebone black, and rPI 3 just hang in the air at the moment.

 

That second one there does not seem capable of decoding / capturing I2C. At 2Msps it's pretty slow. There are several of these that are similar out there that I've had a look at.

 

The idea I had was to cover most of if not all that "standard" embedded serial type protocols. UART, I2C, and SPI. Plus of course CANBus too

[yyrkoon 250]

The clone I ordered seems to be very close to this clone: https://sigrok.org/wiki/MCU123_USBee_AX_Pro_clone

[Rickta59 589]

i thought all those clones didn't have any logic buffers and are limited to 5v max? How is that going to work 20v signals?

[dubnet 238]

Weighing in.... I purchased the 8 channel Saleae a while back when they offered the 43oh community a $25 discount. Didn't have a use for it at the time but since then it has saved me significant time and a lot of aggravation. The hardware is excellent but I feel the major strength is in their software. Overall, it is a superb product that I would highly recommend to anyone.

However, the clones that leverage the Saleae software concern me. If everyone were to buy these clones then Saleae would likely go under or have to invest money in their hardware/software to block the hardware clone vendors. They would probably have to add crypto to the hardware which, in turn, would increase the cost of their product to all their customers.

Perhaps I am in the minority anymore, but I don't buy knockoff hardware even though in the short term the lower pricing can be very attractive. In the long term I would be supporting companies that can take a product that has already been engineered by someone else, offer little to no support, typically use substandard components, and then sell it at a much lower cost. Adding to that I would be supporting the economies of countries that are potentially hostile to us.

 

EDIT:  Should have read @@zeke 's post first as what I was surmising is real time reality:

 

 

 

FYI, they are under pressure by the far east counterfeiters.

 

[yyrkoon 250]

i thought all those clones didn't have any logic buffers and are limited to 5v max? How is that going to work 20v signals?

There is a logic level converter between the bus and where the MSP430 will be. There has to be, otherwise how would the MSP430 survive ?

[yyrkoon 250]

Weighing in.... I purchased the 8 channel Saleae a while back when they offered the 43oh community a $25 discount. Didn't have a use for it at the time but since then it has saved me significant time and a lot of aggravation. The hardware is excellent but I feel the major strength is in their software. Overall, it is a superb product that I would highly recommend to anyone.

 

However, the clones that leverage the Saleae software concern me. If everyone were to buy these clones then Saleae would likely go under or have to invest money in their hardware/software to block the hardware clone vendors. They would probably have to add crypto to the hardware which, in turn, would increase the cost of their product to all their customers.

 

Perhaps I am in the minority anymore, but I don't buy knockoff hardware even though in the short term the lower pricing can be very attractive. In the long term I would be supporting companies that can take a product that has already been engineered by someone else, offer little to no support, typically use substandard components, and then sell it at a much lower cost. Adding to that I would be supporting the economies of countries that are potentially hostile to us.

 

EDIT:  Should have read @@zeke 's post first as what I was surmising is real time reality:

 

I'm "on the fence" in this sort of situation where it could be argued about "ripping off good companies". Because . . .How do we know this company didn't rip off some developer somewhere for this software ? Maybe they hired a rent-a-coder developer and paid them a really cheap fee to write the software. Not only that, there is a well known open sourced software project who supports all their hardware( Saleae ) with Sigrok.

 

Companies like Saleae, and Segger are notorious for charging for too much money for their products. But has anyone actually done a tear down on a Saleae 16 Pro to see what all is in this tiny plastic box ? $550 is far too much money, unless this tiny box is filled with gold. As far as the software goes, don't need it. You've got Sigrok. Maybe next time instead of "sticking it" to their customer base, they'll wise up, and pay a Sigrok developer a fraction of the money they probably claim they've spent on their software. To work on making their hardware, the best it can be in Sigrok.

 

Anyway, my point is. There is more than one way of looking at things.

 

As for the "hostile country" *thing*. This is the way of the world, and has been for the last several thousand years. There is not a single country in this world that does not hold it's land by force of their military. We just have to remember that Governments, no matter whose government is made up of elitist idiots that try to force their will onto their own citizens. This crappy government we now "enjoy" does not even come close to representing me. So it would not be too much of a stretch to imagine that people in another country have to suffer their own political idiots as well . . .

[zeke 693]

@@yyrkoon

 

Joe and his brother built the company from the ground up. Their software was written in house. Their product is top notch. They are good people.

 

EEVBlog has done a teardown.

 

And another one here.

 

If the Saleae isn't your cup of tea then maybe you might like the Open bench Logic Sniffer instead?

[greeeg 460]

Companies like Saleae, and Segger are notorious for charging for too much money for their products.

 

I would say that for a typical application the cost COULD pay itself off VERY quickly with time saved debugging. Of course it does depend on what you do. Often hobbyist/small commercial projects that's not so true.

 

I personally have a OpenBench Logic Sniffer. (Which is compatible with Sigrok) I've really only used it a handful of times, The best example from my use case was reverse engineering an old B/W LCD module that I wanted to use in my project. But typically I'm much more productive with a Scope. (But of course limited to 4 channels.)

[yyrkoon 250]

@@yyrkoon

 

Joe and his brother built the company from the ground up. Their software was written in house. Their product is top notch. They are good people.

 

EEVBlog has done a teardown.

 

And another one here.

 

If the Saleae isn't your cup of tea then maybe you might like the Open bench Logic Sniffer instead?

I really needed it yesterday. SO I asked here, then did an internet search too. So I did not want to spend a huge amount of time, or money to buy something I may only use once. When looking short term, what I bought seemed to be the best option for the money. The Open Bench AL at first glance seemed to be less optimal for my usage. When I first read about the Open Bench, there seemed to be a few caveats when used with sigrok. I also did not know at that time it could be bought from element14 for $45 . . . I was under the impression it was a complete DiY build.

 

Granted the one I ordered *is* coming on a slow boat from China. It's supposedly been shipped already, but no idea when it will actually arrive here.

 

As for the potential nefarious activities they engage in with software . . . I won't be using it. I'll be using sigrok. Which I already have installed.